I started to write a thing about that nut that shot up everyone in Arizona. It started out with me being sad and kind of generally really creeped out by his picture. Then it went into this whole thing about how he’s gonna spend a lot of time with dicks in him starting real soon, and then I was gonna segue into my real point which was about how all these people that are blaming the right, blaming the tea party and blaming Sarah Palin for inspiring violence with aggressive and divisive political rhetoric are complete fucking assholes.
There’s no doubt that political maneuvering is pretty ugly in this day and age, but there’s just no fucking way that a graphic with crosshairs, or someone making some statement about war or guns as a metaphor for a heated campaign inspired anyone to shoot anyone. That’s fucking nonsense. You know who kills people? I’ll tell you. There are two kinds of people that kill people: 1- people who are suddenly put in situations that they never thought they’d ever be in and react, and 2- complete fucking nutjobs. That’s pretty much it.
The first kind of person can be someone that comes home to find someone has broken into their house, or someone who’s walking down the street and gets mugged or someone who walks in and sees their wife blowing their best friend or something like that. The second one is pretty straightforward. Wacked out, crazy motherfuckers just want to kill. That’s how they come to be called ‘wacked out crazy motherfuckers.’ There’s really no way else to put it (now, sure there are people who are trained to kill, like people in the military, for example, but come on…that’s not exactly what I’m talking about, for one thing, and for another thing, soldiers fire something like 2000 rounds wildly for every single fatal bullet. Regular people, soldiers included, don’t tend to want to kill, even in war).
So, let’s take me as a perfect example of someone who’s not a nut. I’m not gonna go kill someone because someone tells me to. I’m definitely not gonna kill someone because someone says the word “gun” in a metaphorical context somewhere in my vicinity. I’m actually not gonna go kill someone, period. Now, let’s take this dude that ended up killing these people. He’s gonna kill. He’s gonna kill even though he’s not supposed to. He’s gonna kill even if no one ever EVER compares speaking your mind to shooting someone in earshot of him and even if no one ever refers to the people he winds up wanting to kill and/or killing as Hitler.
The evidence, besides the pile of bodies that he’s recently amassed, is in the interviews with everyone that knew him that are coming out now. Everyone knew this was a crazy sumbitch that was about to snap. BUT IT’S NO ONE’S FAULT THAT HE SNAPPED BUT HIS! To argue otherwise is completely retarded.
It’s that same rhetoric that implicates Judas Priest for those kids killing themselves. There’s nothing so fucking self important and shitty than saying “well, obviously, there are lots of stupid people out there just waiting to be told what to do by their heroes (be they Palin or Ice Cube or Danzig or Glen Beck) and well, we can’t have them saying this shit because people can get hurt.” THAT, folks is dangerous rhetoric. Not recapitulating an ideological disagreement as a war, not making up rhymes about ripping the heads off little girls or shooting a carful of dudes. Suggesting that regular people aren’t able to control their impulses and that if free speech is left to run unchecked, we’re all gonna be in grave danger, that’s fear mongering, man.
Now, I’m not gonna go calling anyone Hitler or anything, but…well, that’s a party line for dumbdumbs. And I don’t like Sarah Palin. I think she’s woefully unqualified to be telling anyone what to do or make policy, but you know what? I’m not gonna stoop to the level of blaming her for some crazy asshole’s behavior. She’s already enough of an asshole. I can blame her for the things she actually did and does and will do. This is a different thing. One guy’s at fault here, and he’s nothing but a fucking nut killing people. That’s all.
Okay, that’s that. Um…what else? The Holy Mess is a great band that you should all be listening to, and um felching is hilarious. Follow me on twitter @badsandwich and uh…what else? I dunno. This is exhausting. I’m gonna go shoot some speed into my nuts. You guys should do it too, unless you’re girls, in which case, shoot it into your tits. Okay, bye.
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36 comments:
It's like we're sharing a brain this morning, BK. My thoughts exactly.
People are indeed jumping to conclusions far too quickly and are placing way, WAY too much blame on Palin and her ilk in this situation.
That said, until (if we ever do) we know more about the shooter and his motivations (crazy or not*, something motivated him to target this particular person)it's also too soon to rule out the possibility that the constant use of violent rhetoric laced with references to guns and killing that has been used on the right as of late influenced him.
Either way it's a terrible tragedy that may hopefully have a silver lining, however small, if our political leaders can take it as a sign to scale back the rhetoric and focus more on actually... y'know... solving some shit.
As far as restrictions on speech, there already are limits on speech as it relates to inciting violence and harm on others. Whether or not this political rhetoric could fall into the category is a different discussion though.
*There is some doubt about how imbalanced he actually is: http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/01/11/arizona.shooting/index.html?hpt=T2
Yes! BK, The Holy Mess is an awesome fucking band and everyone should be shaking their grove thing to them.
As for the crazy dude, he's pretty fucking out there. I saw that he is really into lucid dreaming (that's where you try and control your dreams) Some expert was saying that maybe he couldn't tell the difference from reality and dreaming. Maybe, maybe not, all I know is that his fucking mug shot is really creepy.
I like the news that reports that he was politically driven...because he had Fahrenheit 451 and Mein Kampf listed as his favorite books on Facebook... :/
Saying that the messages and media people absorb on a regular basis have no effect on them whatsoever is like saying advertising has no effect on people. You might as well say that no ad for a sandwich shop has EVER made you hungry or that no movie trailer ever made you want to see a particular movie. It may not be a "I saw X so I did Y" relationship, but it's pretty difficult to argue that they have no effect at all.
And this is not the first bit of political-related violence we've seen in the last few years. The would be targeter of the Tides Foundation having a shootout with the cops, the father and son duo who had a gun battle with the cops because of their right-wing sovereign citizen beliefs, the shooting at the Holocaut Museum, the guy who flew his plane into an IRS building as part of a tax protest, the law enforcement officials who died in Pittsburgh because the shooter thought Obama was trying to take his guns away, to the various foiled plots (including the would-be inauguration white power assassins), the last few years have seen a remarkable rise in fringe, political-related violence. I'm not convinced it's just a conicidence.
For the record I think it was politically driven as well (at least minimally) but it's unfortunate in my opinion that the news reports that the kid was political in the sense of worshiping Hitler, instead of saying the kid identified with anarchist ideals or disagreed with Gabrielle Gifford's stance, or whatever the case may be which ultimately lead to his objection and therefor going bonkers/violence.
I always have hated the blame game when it comes to stuff like this.
I loved the Ozzy Osbourne Behind the Music (Remeber Behind the Music? Awesome!) when some kid's family was trying to blame Ozzy for the kid killing himself. The attorney for the family was saying that in "Suicide Solution" you can hear him say "Get the gun, shoot."
Idiots.
the holy mess is a great band
Matt - all those people clearly had deep-seated issues prior to their escapades that would render any political 'persuasion' they took in as just positive reinforcement for shit they already kinda wanted to do. Add 'excitable reactionary hick' to mix, ala Pittsburgh guy/father son duo, and presto. No reasonable, mentally sound person hears some good ol' militant rhetoric and says "Ah killin pigs, that's the ticket".
You're wrong. Most people who listen to Sarah Palin, Limbaugh, Glenn Beck etc. are disturbed at best. Deranged people need only the right thing to set them off and they snap. There are plenty of tea party gun nuts out there who see Palin's crosshair map or hear Sharron Angle talk about "second amendment remedies" or hear Glenn Beck cry about how "Obama hates white people" and have the potential to turn those words into a murder.
(whispering) Keeeeith...this may come as a shock, but you and BK agreeeee.....
(still whispering) ...he was saying that political rhetoric in of itself isn't sufficient to make people go out in a "blaaaze of glory" shootin police officers...that there is a pre-existing mental imbalance....faaart~*
No we do not agree. he doesn't think that the Teabaggers should be held accountable for this murder. I do. Sarah palin, Limbaugh, Glenn beck, Michelle Bachmann and the entire Republican party is responsible any time an anti-government mental case shoots people. When they stop saying irresponsible things, they can stop being blamed for this, the guy who flew a plane into the IRS building in texas, the guy who shot up the holocaust museum and every time a teabagger shoots someone.
Buuuut they're not responsible. Misguided, aaaaand as close to objectively wrong as possible, aaaand obnoxious as fuck, yes, but not responsible.
Did you go slit some throats after playing Manhunt for the first time? Anyone else? "I wann' be laaak mah hero, James Earl Cash!" ...Nah. Well, maybe you did, but I'm speculating here. Did you go picketing to have and all other games with violent content banned from shelves?
"Crazy" will always be around, and thus there will always be "triggers" that the sweeping majority aren't affected by.
Even the majority of right wingers, misguided though they are, aren't inspired to "action" by such rhetoric...
There will always be crazy, but that doesn't mean that the republicans get a free pass for their dog whistle rhetoric that is literally telling crazy people to get violent. Yes, there will always be crazy people, but we don't have to give them a trigger.
I never get into into any of this kind of shit, but this was a nothing more than a mentally unstable person who was totally determined to cause chaos and destruction. You can't blame anyone else for it. Blaming the Tea Party (and/or Sarah Palin), or even making a point to mention that they mostly contributed to the cause, is like saying Phil Anselmo caused the death of Dimebag Darrell. And that's just wrong.
It's wrawng!
WRAWWWWWNG!
wrawng, huh? You just sound stupid. Sarah Palin and the teabaggers create an atmosphere that declares the government evil and that makes it ok for nutjobs to commit acts of violence like this.
Be careful. I see this happen all the time. White guys start out liberal, then they become apathetic, then they become cynical, then they become what they hate. They become Ben Weasel. When Glenn Beck says that Obama hates white people, Sarah palin puts crosshairs on democratic congress persons, Sharron Angle calls for 2nd amendment remedies.... when the disturbed people who listen to this nonsense take it too seriously they act drastically. There is no other way to look at it.
Ummm, being rational enough to recognize that Palin, Beck & Co's harmless and laughable dum-dum war drum rhetoric is no more responsible for some unhinged disenfranchised hick's decision to use his rifle-as-penis-stand-in to "Shooooooow theeeeeem!" than Child's Play 3 was responsible for that murder that those two British boys commited back in the early '90s hardly makes one an apathetic Ben Weasel. You just sound stupid. Careful, I've seen this. WHite guys wanna be the altrusitic, impassioned leftist, and fall and slip into "dopey cliche reactionary leftist" that hasn't really thought things all the way through - equally irritating (and wrong) as its right wing counterpart.
Keith, the right wing nutjobs have as much right to protest Obama as the left did Bush when he was in office. Yeah I don't agree with what their saying but it's their right. Kanye West said George Bush hates black people and caused a whole bunch of shit. Hows that any different then glen beck saying Obama hates white people. You can't get to have it one way and not the other just because you don't agree with what their saying.
I gotta weigh in on the it not being Palin and company's fault thing.
I disagree. Partly, it is.
I'm sure we've all come across a crazy on the subway or wherever. You know, the kind who thinks there's aliens listening to their every thoughts. The truly crazy ones.
We know these kind of people are out there. Forget the type of brainwashing that Fox News does to regular idiots. The things these people say, with such violent undertones, paint people like pro-abortionists and gays as evil enemies who need to be taken out as part of God's work. And look what happens. People with mental illnesses listen to that bullshit and it truly brainwashes them, which of course leads to dead people.
This, to me, seems like a pretty good reason to not say such scary shit. It's not like Palin pulled the trigger herself but I definitely think some responsibility should be taken.
Sure, you could argue that if it wasn't this, it would be other people getting killed for some other reason because people with mental illnesses have illnesses regardless. But clearly the bullshit on the right is creating a pretty scary political landscape. I don't know why people who say hateful things and promote violence shouldn't be blamed for inciting.
Hmmm as Holy Mess's number one fan, I approve this message. Which album are you listning to Brendan?
Rhetoric has consequences.
rhetoric is a great album.
LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!LAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!THA LAAAAAAARRRRYYYY AAAAAHHHHHMMSS...............better
While he might be a nutjob and might be prone to shoot a bunch of people and may have done it at some point regardless of what happened in his life, you are giving people too much credit. People are really fucking stupid and easily influenced. Most people that hear violent metaphors obviously don't go kill a bunch of people, but it seems ridiculous to me to act as if his actions were not influenced by the other shit. Or maybe I'm just an asshole.
I'm with Keith on this one. I don't place the blame solely on Sarah Palin or whatever but the idea that they are totally blameless is absolutely absurd. I would really like to know the line where these people actually have to start being held accountable for what they say, because clearly someone could murder several people and that line still isn't crossed. Has the direct connection been established? Not exactly. Has it been made positively clear that this guy was completely out of his mind? Well, yes, obviously. But you take these things into account, then factor in that he was politically-minded (if you looked at his Youtube, it was pretty incoherent but definitely incorporated ideals set forth by super right-wing American militia groups), and THEN think about all the divisive things that have been in the media lately, specifically those with violent undertones (or maybe it's not an undertone at all) and it's really not a stretch to believe that all of this had at least SOME influence on this guy's actions. You can't place the blame solely on one factor, but I definitely believe that the super partisan bullshit flying around (on both sides, to be fair) had a part in what happened.
Totally fucking tragic. Things like this are absolutely terrifying.
First things first; You cannot blame Sarah Palin for this, but BK, you let them off way too easy. I've said it a hundred fucking times: just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should. Yes, we have freedom of speech in this country, but there's a fundamental difference between a candidate who plans to run for one of the most powerful offices on the planet, for some inexplicable reason, using targets on a "map" of a "list" of people to "remove" from their respective positions of power and a rock n roll band talking about "breaking the law." I don't know how many people have been killed in the name of rock and roll, and it's probably more than I think, but I'd bet my flaccid dick that it isn't 1/1000th the number of people to die in the name of politics or religion. The old cardinal rule isn't "no politics, religion, or rock n roll" right? No, because generally speaking people don't kill other people over a dispute between 'greatest rock albums.' They do, and have, however killed each other for centuries over differences in religious belief and politics. Have you seen the Jesse Kelly ad?
What the fuck is this kind of verbiage doing in an ad against a person? For those too lazy and/or busy masturbating, the text reads "Get on target for victory in November help remove Gabrielle Giffords from office shoot a fully automatic M16 with Jesse Kelly."
What place does any of this type of talk have inside of a political debate? I understand that gun control is an issue, but this is saying nothing about gun control. I would love to hear someone validate this one. I'm not saying they don't have the freedom to say it, but guess what, you're free to eat your own shit too, but people don't do it for the sake of doing it, do they? (I await links of poop eating.) My point is this, NOT Sarah Palin's fault, not Jesse Kelly's fault, not the GOP's fault in particular, but fuck me if this isn't the epitome of irresponsibility on the part of a bunch of people who claim to be qualified to run the damn country. Additionally, I don't think the mentally ill are not in need of help coming up with their deranged plans. The crazy are going to do crazy things, but we don't need a bunch of ads from these cunts supporting ideas like these.
"I'm with Keith on this one"
...But of course you are, lil' MaggieJoan!
Computerized female voice: What is the most unattractive male first name in the English language?
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/neuwrite/pubs/avivHarpers.pdf
This article has been sticking with me since I read it. It seems oddly relevant to this discussion. Weird.
In completely related news, BK, did you hear that Charlie Sheen had an orgy with Bree Olson?
http://www.wwtdd.com/2011/01/charlie-sheen-had-an-orgy-with-bree-olsen/
I know a lot of republicans. They say some crazy things. I hear them say insane things about Obama and democrats and government in general. I have friends that are sane by all means who think that Obama is building fema death camps for dissenters. My mother works in a doctor's office in florida and she says that every day her patients feel compelled to tell her that their guns are loaded and they're ready. Ready for what? They think they have to be prepared to kill federal officials. If relatively normal people say these things because of what Palin, Beck and limbaugh tell them, then you only need to be a little crazy to snap. In this environment, nobody gets a free pass for telling lies and inciting violence. Republicans are subhuman.
What you're either failing to understand or dishonestly failing to acknowledge, sweet keith, is that the garden variety blue collar bumblefuck republican your mom typically encounters at the clinic merely says shit like that as the result of a limited vocabulary and scope of mind struggling to express intense frwwwwustration at the overall concept of seeing a colored man in a position of supreme power and that inescapable sense of just feeling like a tiny lil' ant in general. 99% of those idiots are all bark no bite; none but those deranged few are actually going to go "buuuuuck wiiiiiiild wif da buuuuuck shot" or whatever. So no, it's not a case of a bunch of marginalized hicks being "just on the verge" of snapping...it's more like a bunch of marginalized hicks recycling the fucking corny overcooked militant metaphors they're seeing/hearing on the boob box because it's simple cathartic nature appeals to their tweedle dum minds...the very reason it's very deliberately employed to begin with obviously. Gotta steer that herd any way ya' caaan!
anyone have "cigarette reflections" mp3 from the holy mess?
its the only one of their songs i need.
earnyoursleep@hotmail.com
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